May 14, 2009

So....according to the Cardinal, I'm not actually Human. Sweet.

Cardinal Cormack Murphy-O'Connor speaks with Roger Bolton on BBC Radio and explains why secularists aren't completely human. Wonder if that means I have superpowers. Sigh.

13 comments:

Randal Graves said...

I can live without sizzling eye beams or the ability to leap tall buildings in three or fewer bounds, but I wouldn't mind being a bit taller. Every hoops team needs a gangly white towel waver at 500k/season.

Worried American said...

Well for crying out loud! How did that dork come up with that convoluted reasoning?? According to Christian beliefs (and the Catholics ARE Christians, aren't they?) God created all human beings and as such each one is a "child of God". Soooo, aren't all God's children human, regardless of their beliefs? I repeat, DORK!!

Justine said...

"Impoverished understanding of what it means to be human" is different from actually being "less than human," although I can see how you would make your conclusion from this short clip taken out of a much larger context.

But one of your superpowers is your sense of humor. :)

Lemmy Caution said...

He clearly says that if you don't believe in "god" (and surely he means HIS god) "you are not fully human".

Either with your description, or his...it is still insanely presumptuous and very offensive.

Justine said...

We had company this weekend, but I wanted to get back to you on this topic.

I understand why you would be offended, seriously, I do! but look at it from this perspective. There are family and friends in your life who love you and care about you who have experienced something that exists beyond the senses and they want you to know about it. They know what it's like to live with the fulfillment of the soul, and how empty life would be in comparison. They want to share this peace and joy with you, but you just plug your ears and yell at them to leave you alone.

Perhaps it is we who should be offended by you. :)

Lemmy Caution said...

They want to share this peace and joy with you, but you just plug your ears and yell at them to leave you alone.
That is just not true.

I have never once plugged my ears and yelled at any member of my family to leave me alone. You are making a fairly large assumption there.

Alas, they also respect my beliefs enough not to try and preach at me as well. I certainly know that none of them would go so far as to say that I (or anyone for that matter) is not human because of what they think about "god".

Justine said...

My apologies--I meant figuratively, and I am given to the use of dramatic expressions, as you are probably well aware.

But the bottom line is, you refuse to believe what some of us are trying to tell you is real. And while I respect that you don't believe what you haven't experienced for yourself, I think it would be very wrong of me to NOT to try to share this information with you. No one is saying you are not human (that's what Obama says about unborn babies which is why it's OK to harvest their organs so other people can live). What we're saying is that there's more to being human than you acknowledge.

Someday, as a little experiment, try to pray. If you fail to get an answer, you'll only be proven right.

Lemmy Caution said...

But the bottom line is, you refuse to believe what some of us are trying to tell you is real. And you refuse to believe what the Mormons, Scientologists, and Muslims are telling YOU is real.


No one is saying you are not humanExcept the Catholic Church....or at least this Cardinal.


What we're saying is that there's more to being human than you acknowledge.Prove it.

Someday, as a little experiment, try to pray.Been there, done that. I'd much rather watch The Big Lebowski again. Much more rewarding.

Justine said...

You're dancing around my point, so I'll be more direct: Why don't you believe me?

(BTW, Mormons, Scientologists, and Muslims all say there is a God, so I DO believe them when they tell me that.)

I can't "prove it" to you...just yet anyway. ;) You take the leap of faith yourself--that's what I've been trying to tell you.

Try praying again. I promise I won't tell anyone!

Have a great day.

Lemmy Caution said...

Mormons, Scientologists, and Muslims all say there is a God, so I DO believe them when they tell me thatYou miss the point. They are telling you that YOUR GOD IS WRONG. A false prophet. A lie. You are doomed. They are essentially telling you the same thing you are telling me.

Why don't you believe me?
The same reason I don't believe Joseph Smith, Tom Cruise, Allah, and the lady at the flea market that will read my palm for 30 bucks.

Justine said...

I know there is a God because I've met him.

That's where I agree with all other religions. We've all somehow encountered a being larger than ourselves. (Assuming they are being sincere.)

I'm Catholic because I believe the Catholic teachings about God are the most rational and make the most sense. I could go through the teachings of all other religions and point out to you how they are not rational. But we'll save that for the coffee date.

Do you believe anything I tell you? Like do you believe my kids are in the basement finishing up an episode of Hogan's Heroes? Just stuff like that, but not stuff about communicating with God?

Lemmy Caution said...

That's where I agree with all other religions. We've all somehow encountered a being larger than ourselves.


Yes, but that is an extremely vague agreement. You see, they have NO belief in a god that was born of a virgin, crucified, and resurrected. They deny your god.


I could go through the teachings of all other religions and point out to you how they are not rational.I must warn you, I am frequently extremely amused when one religion points out why another "isn't rational". It just always throws me for a loop.


Do you believe anything I tell you? Like do you believe my kids are in the basement finishing up an episode of Hogan's Heroes? Just stuff like that, but not stuff about communicating with God?I have no reason not to believe you. Claiming your kids are in the basement doesn't take much belief. If you tell me that, then OK. Claiming something supernatural is different. Exceptional claims require exceptional proof. Otherwise we would all still be buying magic elixers from the back of wagons to cure our illnesses.

But I do believe that you believe! Of that I have little doubt!!

Justine said...

"Yes, but that is an extremely vague agreement."
The leap between there is NO God to there IS a God is the biggest one. It turns the world completely upsidedown. Imagine for a minute how your worldview would change if you suddenly discovered everything you claimed was false was true.

"Exceptional claims require exceptional proof."

True! Very true! And I don't doubt that you'll get your proof someday. :)