June 16, 2009

Funiest thing I've seen all month

Justine says I pick on the poor poor Catholics too much. Probably true, but they earn it honestly.

This bit of religious WOO is by far the funniest thing I've read all month.

And for once, the poor poor poor Catholics get left out of it.

No worry. I'm sure the powers that be in Rome will do something insipid and make up for it before the month is out....

Religious row as Orthodox Jewish couple sue neighbours for 'imprisoning' them with automatic hallway light

A Jewish couple are suing their neighbours in a block of flats, saying an automatic security light is keeping them prisoner in their home because it forces them to break their Sabbath rules.

Dr Dena Coleman and husband Gordon claim they cannot leave their holiday flat on the Sabbath because when they do they automatically trigger the light in the communal hallway - contravening a religious ban on turning on electrical items from sunset on Friday to sunset on Saturday because it constitutes 'creating fire'.

They say their human rights are being breached and are now suing the flats' management company - their neighbours - for failing to accommodate their religion.

The other 35 owners of the seaside flats are liable to pay court costs if the claim is successful.
Dr Coleman, a 56-year-old headteacher at a Jewish orthodox school in London, has been visiting the £200,000 holiday flat in Bournemouth, Dorset, with her husband for six years.

The management company fitted the motion-sensing lights six months ago in a bid to save energy and money.

The Colemans have offered to pay for an override switch to disable the light sensors during the Sabbath.

But the Embassy Court Management Company - which represents all residents and whose three directors also live in the block - said this would set an 'unacceptable precedent'.

In a letter sent to occupants of all of the other 35 apartments in the block, the Colemans said: 'Faced with a situation where we could never again have full use of our flat, we were left with no alternative but to seek legal advice.'

Full story here....

When your religion imprisons you in your home because you can't trigger a motion detecting light.....it just MIGHT be time to step back and take a long hard look at the beliefs that your parents stuck you with. Just maybe.


Randal Graves said...


Of course, I guess it won't be that funny if their suit is successful.

Justine said...

A lesser-known reason that Jesus came to earth was that he predicted the discovery of electricity and knew someday his people would find themselves in such a pickle. Too bad not all Jews recognized the Messiah. ;)

Justine said...

And this isn't a religious problem, this is an entitlement problem. These people need to realize the world does not revolve around them. If they feel their neighbor's lights are imprisoning them, they are FREE TO MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE. Between Sabbaths, of course.

Lemmy Caution said...

this isn't a religious problem, this is an entitlement problem. .


Yet the reason they feel entitled is BECAUSE of their religion.

Cast away the silly beliefs and LIVE your life!

Christine Gram said...

Actually, I thought the simple solution would be to disable the automatic lights when they are there during Sabbaths... and they even offered to pay to do so. I don't get what the precedent would be? Simple things to accommodate other people? That doesn't seem so bad.

Justine said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Justine said...

You and I both agree that their observance of the no-night lights law is unnecessary--me because the Messiah came and we are no longer bound by the Old Covenant Laws, and you because you don't believe anyone was ever bound in the first place.

I think we also agree that, as American citizens, these folks have a right to their religious beliefs, no matter how unnecessary the two of us think they are.

I think we also might agree that definition of the phrase "human rights" has ballooned to such a degree that it now seems to include just about ANYTHING that you WANT to do, not what you NEED to survive in the world.

So, that's why I still think that these people's entitlement mentality is the source of their problem, not their religion. If they were vegans, and not Jews, who lived next door to ME, they might complain that they were imprisoned in their home because my kids left such a disgusting mess of hot dog crumbs everywhere that they couldn't walk across.

But in both cases (the Jew and my unfortunate imaginary vegan neighbors) no one is discriminating against the people with strong beliefs. Those people are free to pick up and move to someplace where they will not be imprisoned in their homes.

And, yes, as adults, you must step back and take a good, hard look at the religion you were raised with, and attempt to discover what truth really is.

Justine said...

"Jews" not "Jew"

Lemmy Caution said...

me because the Messiah came and we are no longer bound by the Old Covenant Laws,.


“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven”-Matthew 5:18-19 RSV

I think we also agree that, as American citizens, these folks have a right to their religious beliefs.


And, yes, as adults, you must step back and take a good, hard look at the religion you were raised with, and attempt to discover what truth really is..

True. Especially if the belief you were raised with has a god that murders women and children and includes tales of evil talking snakes, dragons, unicorns, and giants.

Justine said...

"me because the Messiah came and we are no longer bound by the Old Covenant Laws"

I wasn't picking a fight with you over this point. I was pointing out that we both have our reasons for thinking the law the Jews were observing was unnecessary.

But perhaps seeking common ground is not important to you. In that case, you might be getting some divorce papers in the mail very soon...

Lemmy Caution said...

I wasn't picking a fight either!

Just pointing out what Jesus himself "said" about the idea that he replaced the Old Covenant Laws.

You will get no alimony from me woman!


Justine said...

Also, if you understood the Scriptures, you would know that Jesus, who repeatedly emphasized that he came to establish a New Covenant with his people, was NOT talking about RITUALS like staying away from night lights, which are very different from moral guidelines.

The ten commandments were never replaced and Jesus made that clear when he even summed them up as "Love the Lord God with all your mind, heart, and strength," and "Love your neighbor as yourself." These are the commandments that cannot be relaxed.

Justine said...

We posted simultaneously.

Well...I guess I'll stick around.

But only because I have been required to love my neighbor as myself.

Lemmy Caution said...

Actually Jesus omitted half of the ten commandments and made up a new one.

He is portrayed to be just as inconsistant as the rest of the bible.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." - attributed to a JC.

"All of these rules are part of the Old Covenant and of equal import. Why quote the Ten Commandments and ignore other tenets? A believer’s obligation to one is no less than his obligation to all. In fact, if under the New Covenant Christians have stepped into the shoes of the Israelites and become, in effect, the new Chosen People, then they should inherit all the privileges and duties of that office. They seem to want the former but not the latter. Biblicists teach, preach, and attempt to reach others with moralism, but are not averse to selectively using that which suits their interests." - Carlotte S.

Justine said...

I think you are mistaken about Jesus omitting any of the commandments. When he was asked which of the commandments were most important, he summed up the first three with "Love God with your whole heart, mind, and strength" and summed up the other seven with "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Here is the Catholic interpretation of the fulfillment of the law quote. (from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.)

578 Jesus, Israel's Messiah and therefore the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, was to fulfill the Law by keeping it in its all embracing detail - according to his own words, down to "the least of these commandments".330 He is in fact the only one who could keep it perfectly.331 On their own admission the Jews were never able to observe the Law in its entirety without violating the least of its precepts.332 This is why every year on the Day of Atonement the children of Israel ask God's forgiveness for their transgressions of the Law. The Law indeed makes up one inseparable whole, and St. James recalls, "Whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it."333

579 This principle of integral observance of the Law not only in letter but in spirit was dear to the Pharisees. By giving Israel this principle they had led many Jews of Jesus' time to an extreme religious zeal.334 This zeal, were it not to lapse into "hypocritical" casuistry,335 could only prepare the People for the unprecedented intervention of God through the perfect fulfillment of the Law by the only Righteous One in place of all sinners.336

580 The perfect fulfillment of the Law could be the work of none but the divine legislator, born subject to the Law in the person of the Son.337 In Jesus, the Law no longer appears engraved on tables of stone but "upon the heart" of the Servant who becomes "a covenant to the people", because he will "faithfully bring forth justice".338 Jesus fulfills the Law to the point of taking upon himself "the curse of the Law" incurred by those who do not "abide by the things written in the book of the Law, and do them", for his death took place to redeem them "from the transgressions under the first covenant".339

Justine said...

BTW, I'm assuming you don't care. ;)

Lemmy Caution said...

No what have I told you time and again about assuming thing about little old me!