In Brazil a nine year old girl was repeatedly raped by her stepfather. Doctors examined her and said that she was pregnant with twins, and would most likely die giving birth.
I'd give that one a pass.
Of course, the Catholic Church saw it differently and excommunicated almost all involved.
How does adding two dead babies to that mess make anything better? What did the babies do to deserve having their limbs torn off or be burned by acid?
The 12 year old will have scars her whole life from her abuse that might never completely heal. Now on top of that she will have to struggle with the knowledge that two of her own children were killed in an attempt to somehow make the whole thing go away.
Women instinctively know that the child in their womb is a human being. This will haunt her the rest of her life.
The Church, if I remember correctly, did not excommunicate the girl--who did nothing wrong--but only the adults who arranged for the murder of two of the three children involved.
Excommunication is not a permanent banishment from the Church. It is a formal recognition that a member has sinned so grievously that they can not participate in the sacraments until they make amends with God. It is for the good of the member's soul, not a punishment. The Church desires that these members repent and come back. It's done with a great sadness, not malice.
One of my children was born at 24 weeks and is a perfectly healthy 11 year old today. Delivering full term may have endangered the 12 year old, but why was delivering the twins as soon as they were viable not an option?
The 12 year old will have scars her whole life from her abuse that might never completely heal. .
She was 9. And she may very well heal. You don't KNOW that.
The Church, if I remember correctly, did not excommunicate the girl--who did nothing wrong--but only the adults who arranged for the murder of two of the three children involved. .
Yes, they did excommunicate her. Then after the public backlash, they took it back. Classy.
It's done with a great sadness, not malice. .
Yeah, I'm sure those that were excommunicated feel no malice at all. I'm sure it made them feel part of a loving institution they spent their lives a part of.
Classy again.
Bottom line is that the doctors that physically SAW and EXAMINED the 9 year old rape victim said she would die. So they SAVED HER LIFE.
Good for them. A necessary medical procedure. I applaud them.
why was delivering the twins as soon as they were viable not an option? .
Talk to the doctors that saw and examined her. They know.
You can paint them as bloodthirsty baby killers if you like. I like to think they had the nine year old girls best interests at heart.
I'm a blog hog! Last word, and then I'm offline for the day...
...the situation with the 12 year old is one of the "hard cases", but did you know that the hard cases make up a very small percentage of the about 1 million abortions in the U.S. every year?
There are probably more accurate statistics out there (I have no time today!) but these that I grabbed from wiki are similar to what I have seen elsewhere.
Reasons women cite for having abortions:
25.5% Want to postpone childbearing 21.3% Cannot afford a baby 14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy 12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy 10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job 7.9% Want no (more) children 3.3% Risk to fetal health 2.8% Risk to maternal health 2.1% Other
Here's a detail you may not know: in the case of an ectopic pregnancy (where the baby is developing in the fallopian tube) the Church allows doctors to remove the entire fallopian tube from the woman's body. The baby will unfortunately die after being removed, but the doctors will not have intended its death, or done anything to damage the baby's body. It will just die a natural death because it is not yet viable outside the womb. The Church recognizes that there are situations where a developing child could kill its mother, and does not excommunicate persons involved in saving the mother's life in these kinds of situations. My guess is that the nine year old's doctors had other options.
Oh, so if you're a licensed medical professional you are infallible? That's interesting, because I thought you didn't believe in infallibility .;) I don't believe doctors are Gods, and I'm pretty sure some do make wrong calls sometimes.
Since you set so much store by licensed professionals, it reminds me that once you told me I need counseling because I rely on God for everything. Funny that there are LOTS of licensed professional counselors who counsel people to rely on a higher power. Just like the AA program that has proven to be so successful in helping alcoholics. So I'm confused--which licensed professionals should I listen to? Just the ones that ascribe to your atheistic worldview?
And lastly, if you really want to convince me that abortion is OK, you should cite facts that prove the fetus is not a human being...if there are any. Excommunication of priests is a separate topic and has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the unborn have rights. Do you want me to accuse you of arguing like a woman? ;)
"I have problems with giving the government rights and power over someone's body fluids and organs," you say, but people who abort babies have power over other people's body fluids and organs--and choose to end their lives. This is murder. Denying a human being the right to life is the ultimate form of discrimination. We need to stand up for the most helpless, defenseless members of society who are being led to slaughter by the millions.
15 comments:
You're gonna sock it to me?
Abortion is never necessary.
Are we agreeing here?
Yes, there are cases where I believe it is necessary.
Dick just isn't naming them.
But necessary or not....I have problems with giving the government rights and power over someone's body fluids and organs.
Please give me an example of when it would be necessary to kill an innocent human being.
In Brazil a nine year old girl was repeatedly raped by her stepfather. Doctors examined her and said that she was pregnant with twins, and would most likely die giving birth.
I'd give that one a pass.
Of course, the Catholic Church saw it differently and excommunicated almost all involved.
How does adding two dead babies to that mess make anything better? What did the babies do to deserve having their limbs torn off or be burned by acid?
The 12 year old will have scars her whole life from her abuse that might never completely heal. Now on top of that she will have to struggle with the knowledge that two of her own children were killed in an attempt to somehow make the whole thing go away.
Women instinctively know that the child in their womb is a human being. This will haunt her the rest of her life.
The Church, if I remember correctly, did not excommunicate the girl--who did nothing wrong--but only the adults who arranged for the murder of two of the three children involved.
Excommunication is not a permanent banishment from the Church. It is a formal recognition that a member has sinned so grievously that they can not participate in the sacraments until they make amends with God. It is for the good of the member's soul, not a punishment. The Church desires that these members repent and come back. It's done with a great sadness, not malice.
One of my children was born at 24 weeks and is a perfectly healthy 11 year old today. Delivering full term may have endangered the 12 year old, but why was delivering the twins as soon as they were viable not an option?
The 12 year old will have scars her whole life from her abuse that might never completely heal. .
She was 9. And she may very well heal. You don't KNOW that.
The Church, if I remember correctly, did not excommunicate the girl--who did nothing wrong--but only the adults who arranged for the murder of two of the three children involved.
.
Yes, they did excommunicate her. Then after the public backlash, they took it back. Classy.
It's done with a great sadness, not malice.
.
Yeah, I'm sure those that were excommunicated feel no malice at all. I'm sure it made them feel part of a loving institution they spent their lives a part of.
Classy again.
Bottom line is that the doctors that physically SAW and EXAMINED the 9 year old rape victim said she would die. So they SAVED HER LIFE.
Good for them. A necessary medical procedure. I applaud them.
why was delivering the twins as soon as they were viable not an option?
.
Talk to the doctors that saw and examined her. They know.
You can paint them as bloodthirsty baby killers if you like. I like to think they had the nine year old girls best interests at heart.
I'm a blog hog! Last word, and then I'm offline for the day...
...the situation with the 12 year old is one of the "hard cases", but did you know that the hard cases make up a very small percentage of the about 1 million abortions in the U.S. every year?
There are probably more accurate statistics out there (I have no time today!) but these that I grabbed from wiki are similar to what I have seen elsewhere.
Reasons women cite for having abortions:
25.5% Want to postpone childbearing
21.3% Cannot afford a baby
14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job
7.9% Want no (more) children
3.3% Risk to fetal health
2.8% Risk to maternal health
2.1% Other
Don't know where I got 12 from--sorry bout that.
Here's a detail you may not know: in the case of an ectopic pregnancy (where the baby is developing in the fallopian tube) the Church allows doctors to remove the entire fallopian tube from the woman's body. The baby will unfortunately die after being removed, but the doctors will not have intended its death, or done anything to damage the baby's body. It will just die a natural death because it is not yet viable outside the womb. The Church recognizes that there are situations where a developing child could kill its mother, and does not excommunicate persons involved in saving the mother's life in these kinds of situations. My guess is that the nine year old's doctors had other options.
My guess is that the nine year old's doctors had other options. .
Your guess vs. trained licensed medical professionals.
I'll wager that they made the right choice. Let's not forget that abortion is illegal there...which makes their choice all the more serious.
They saved the life of a nine year old rape victim.
And their church excommunicated them for it.
I'll let you guess how many child molesting priests the church has excommunicated.
I'll give you a hint....the number looks like a big white egg.
Oh, so if you're a licensed medical professional you are infallible? That's interesting, because I thought you didn't believe in infallibility .;) I don't believe doctors are Gods, and I'm pretty sure some do make wrong calls sometimes.
Since you set so much store by licensed professionals, it reminds me that once you told me I need counseling because I rely on God for everything. Funny that there are LOTS of licensed professional counselors who counsel people to rely on a higher power. Just like the AA program that has proven to be so successful in helping alcoholics. So I'm confused--which licensed professionals should I listen to? Just the ones that ascribe to your atheistic worldview?
And lastly, if you really want to convince me that abortion is OK, you should cite facts that prove the fetus is not a human being...if there are any. Excommunication of priests is a separate topic and has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the unborn have rights. Do you want me to accuse you of arguing like a woman? ;)
"I have problems with giving the government rights and power over someone's body fluids and organs," you say, but people who abort babies have power over other people's body fluids and organs--and choose to end their lives. This is murder. Denying a human being the right to life is the ultimate form of discrimination. We need to stand up for the most helpless, defenseless members of society who are being led to slaughter by the millions.
Oh, so if you're a licensed medical professional you are infallible? .
I didn't say that, or even insinuate that. I said THESE doctors actually saw and examined THAT child.
it reminds me that once you told me I need counseling because I rely on God for everything. .
I never said that.
Just like the AA program that has proven to be so successful in helping alcoholics..
AA has a horrible success rate and more and more is NOT being required by courts of law because it is religious in nature.
Just the ones that ascribe to your atheistic worldview?
.
Atheism is not a worldview. It is the lack of belief in a god or gods. That's all.
And lastly, if you really want to convince me that abortion is OK, you should cite facts that prove the fetus is not a human being.
I'm not going to even make an attempt to do that. I will just state and stick by my own thoughts on the subject (which you quoted).
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