March 06, 2009

Nothing like Christian compassion.....

"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned, forgive, and ye shall be forgiven." ~Luke 6:37~

RIO DE JANEIRO — A Roman Catholic archbishop says the abortion of twins carried by a 9-year-old girl who allegedly was raped by her stepfather means excommunication for the girl's mother and her doctors.

Despite the nature of the case, the church had to hold its line against abortion, Archbishop Jose Cardoso Sobrinho said in an interview aired Thursday by Globo television.

"The law of God is higher than any human laws," he said. "When a human law — that is, a law enacted by human legislators — is against the law of God, that law has no value. The adults who approved, who carried out this abortion have incurred excommunication."

Doctors said the girl was 15 weeks pregnant when the abortion was performed Wednesday in the northeastern city of Recife, where Sobrinho is archbishop. Health officials said the life of the girl — who weighs 80 pounds — was in danger.

Full story here......


Justine said...

There were two children involved in this terribly sad situation. That is why the Church spoke as it did.

I know you don't believe that an unborn child is a human being, so I understand why this frustrates you.

Lemmy Caution said...

Not the point.

The point is the complete lack of compassion from the church. Instead of trying to understand and assist, they excommunicated.

Hence the bible quote, the title of the post, etc. etc.

themom said...

I'm with you Lemmy on this one. Pathetic.

Justine said...

Hey, did you get my response and just not post it (which is fine) or did I accidently not send it?

Lemmy Caution said...

If you left a newer comment, I haven't received it yet. But I have noticed in the past that some of your comments show up in my email a couple days late.

laura said...

If her body was able to concieve, with proper medical attention she could be able to deliver - even if by C-section, very early (like twenty weeks). She's not the first 80lbs person or young girl to have a baby, you know.
How dare her parents make her live with the fact that she murdered her twin babies! No one said she had to raise them - there are tons of people who would adopt them. I bet she would have been happy to have them. I base this on my extensive knowledge of nine year olds.
Murder isn't compassion. Excommunicating people who are putting their immortal souls in danger for all eternity is, because it gives them a chance to consider this fact. By the way, the girl wasn't excommunicated, the adults in the situation were.

Justine is very nice about "I understand why this frustrates you" but I don't. I think you're just looking for an excuse to be mad at the church, and unwilling to look at a very knowable reality of the full humantiy of unborn children.

Lemmy Caution said...

I respect your opinions on abortion, and while we disagree on the issue, that's not the point as I see it.

I would think a church would be somewhere a person could rely on to help them in their darkest hours.

It would be there to lift them up, counsel them, and do what it can to help them come around to a more positive light.

Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure the character of Jesus, as he's portrayed in the Bible would most likely NOT sever evangelical ties with a family that had been through what this one had.

I just find it sad and frustrating (not "mad" as you put it) that an institution that somebody belongs to would turn it's back on them in their hour of need.

laura said...

Do you know more details about this story than I do? Is it the case that no one offered them help or good counsel?
Perhaps the family did not contact the church, but because of the sensational nature of the case it was picked up by the media and the church became involved. There are certainly priests and bishops who lack a certain "bedside manor" in their pastoral care, but many are at least somewhat if not very compassionate. I find it hard to believe that the first thing that happened was the family recieved a screaming phone call kicking them out of the church.
Or, perhaps the family privately sought the counsel of a church figure, but were dissatisfied with the advice they got and rejected it, and then the church really didn't have a choice, knowing what they know.
Most likely if they had gone to the church and asked for help through this difficult time they would have received an outpouring of love, prayer, and finacial help.

You know what, I'm rambling. Here's the point I want to make. This case was so public the church had to respond. But try to understand this: excommunication is not kicking someone down and spitting on them because you don't like them. It the church's way of highlighting the fact that your actions have completely cut you off from the possibility of salvation. YOUR ACTIONS, not the church. Because the church WANTS all men to be saved it has to step in when something gets this serious, so that people can repent and be saved. It's better to be a little shamed for some odd hours on earth, than eternally damned. Excommunication is ALWAYS lifted when a person is truly sorry and rejects their sin. Excommunication isn't out of spite, or meanness. It's out of love. Like spanking a kid because they tried to pull a pot of boiling water off the stove. The spanking smarts, but two gallons of boiling water over your head would cause MUCH greater deal of long-term pain (that's not a great analogy, but you get the idea).

Point: the church loves these people enough to want to bring them back into communion with God, so they can attain heaven. And people don't get excommunicated for eating meat on Friday, just for the REALLY big stuff.

But if you don't believe in God and think the whole thing is meaningless, why would you care? They should just get out of the church anyway, right?

Lemmy Caution said...

The girl was 9 YEARS OLD. She weighed 80 POUNDS. She was RAPED.

The church told her before the abortion to carry the TWINS to term and have a cesarean.

Of course, ANY DOCTOR will tell you that is a death sentence for the NINE YEAR OLD RAPE VICTIM.

So all in all I find the whole "excommunication" decree pretty heartless. Regardless of what window dressing you want to hang around the term.

Amazingly, the church has had a SLIGHT change of heart. They aren't going to excommunicate the 9 year old rape victim. They have decided to just stick with everybody else involved.


Justine said...

Yeah, I don't always get comments in my inbox either.

Just briefly: "judge not" refers to the heart, not the actions. Our civil laws judge actions all the time. If you are proven guilty of robbing a store, murdering your spouse, pouring antifreeze in the water bowl of that annoying little yippy dog next door...whatever! you are judged in court and sentenced with some kind of punishment.

But even though we can judge whether a person's actions are right or wrong, no one can ever know a person's true intentions or motives except that person, and his Maker.

It's much easier to forgive someone when you remember how often your own intentions have been misunderstood. God wants us to treat everyone with the same love and understanding with which we want to be treated. That's what Luke was explaining.

Lemmy Caution said...

I understood that, but thanks for the input.

The quote was put up there to show the irony of the Church's action in this very horrible matter.

Your comments seem to support that. You say God wants us to treat everyone with the same love and understanding with which we want to be treated.

Makes sense. So why excommunicate the family and doctors that effectively saved a nine year old rape victim's life?

Preach love, compassion, and forgiveness.....but to condemn for THIS action seems so amazingly heartless to me. Pro-Life or not. It's just ugly.

Shame on them.

Justine said...

I had written the explanation for that in the comment that went missing. Put it on the list of all those answers I keep promising to give you...people here are demanding lunch.